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Brewnerians: Read a story from Welcome to the Monkey House and respond. I'll try to start with a question, but feel free to begin if I haven't arrived there yet. Choose three (or more?) of the stories to respond to. Maybe you can write about confusions, or guesses, or comparisons, or the language, or characters, or the White Rock Girl or....whatever catches your attention.
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51 comments:
No wonder Mr. Brewner didn't want us to read this story. Sex, drugs, and r... racism. This story is only another one on the list of science fiction writings trying to warn about the future. It's an interesting idea and what not. I don't know what's wrong with Vonnegut for him to think up what the monkeys were doing, but I'll give him credit for creativiy. I don't know if I would have chosen this story to name the book after, though.
First off, I just want to say that this story is really cool. At first I was pretty shocked at what Vonnegut came up with. The idea of birth control is nothing new, and neither is the debate over it. On the other hand, I really doubt anyone has thought of the solution that Vonnegut did. Regardless of the solution, I think he was definitely on to something when he chose to name his book after this story because he obviously realized the magnitude of the issue in society when he wrote this story in 1968 -- forty years later this is still a hot topic and we have made basically no progress. I think he recognizes over population as a problem, as well as feels that something needs to be done about it. I don’t think he really believes in his theory of taking the pleasure out of sex because his whole story is about a character who is working to destroy this solution. Obviously the best method for birth control is abstinence, I'm sure we've all heard that. But apparently, that isn't good enough for us, because we have a birth control market with several methods to choose from. If birth control is really that immoral, then I guess a lot of us will have a nice little birth control party in hell. I'll bring the condoms.
Interesting comment Kenn... However, I don't think Vonnegut's idea of taking a pill 3 times a day to have no feeling under your abdomen is realistic, even in the future. Sex is born into humans,coded into our DNA, something we can't control (well, to a certain degree)and the need to have sex will always stay with us. So, Vonnegut's solution of solving a population problem in the end with the monthly pill, is much more realistic than the numbing pill. I think the title, Welcome to the Monkey House, is symbolic of the people of the world and how people have a need for sex like animals (in this case monkeys), not that Vonnegut is a sick pervert watching monkeys doing their thing.
After reading this story I was confused as to why the story was called "Welcome to the Monkey House," but now I understand why Vonnegut called his story "Welcome to the Monkey House," after reading Tim's comment. I also agree with Tim's statement about a monthly pill being the most realistic way to help stop population growth. I could also see the population of the world as a serious problem in the future as Vonnegut does. With all the advancements in technology, people will probably live much longer in the future. Also, when I read about the "Federal Ethical Suicide Parlor," I completely disagreed with the "ethical" part since I believe suicide is immoral.
I agree with Ken when he said that this story is really cool. I really liked how Vonnegut created the story and the major issue that he wanted to discuss--population. Birth control is the most effective way to stabilize populations (now-a-days it is but diseases are truely the most effective at killing off populations). Tim is accurate in his assertions that sex is something that humans will always need. I think that this story makes a great title for the whole book. The title represents what Tim said, and represents how Vonnegut looks at our society and what it will become. He doesn't have much hope for the future of this country and he considers the world turning into a "monkey house," or uncivilized, immoral, corrupt individuals.
Mmm, I don’t exactly agree…although on the surface Welcome to the Monkey House seems to be about an overpopulated sci-fi world, I think that it’s actually about the link between physical and emotional. Nancy, a Hostess, is not only numb to sex, but she can also smile while injecting someone to death. How is that? What part of her did the birth control pills kill? Why is it that when Billy the Poet robs Hostesses of their birth control defense while reading them love poems they loose the urge to kill heartlessly as before? I guess what I see in this story is a question: what role does sex play in humans/ the world?
I can see why this story is one of the stories that most "educators" feel is not appropriate for teenagers to read. I felt that this story was one of the best that we have read during this unit. Vonnegut’s idea for population control was pretty creative, using pills to make someone numb from the waist down. The significance of Billy talking about the monkey house and also about his great-great-grandfather’s pajamas was cool as to how he explained what the world used to be like. This is another story, along with Harrison Bergeon, where Vonnegut is very afraid of what the future of civilization could bring. Vonnegut really feels that we will overproduce and we will handle this very badly, turning to pills to control reproduction.
this was sort of ridiculous. if you were numb from the waist down, how could you walk? SOMEONE wasn't thinking when he wrote this...
um. it was an ok story. it wasn't like REALLY AWESOME. it was just ok. i think everyone thinks it's cool because it has sex and suicide in it.
and ioana, the suicide ladies are doing their jobs. suicide doesn't seem as much of a no-no topic in this story as it is now (it's another way of getting rid of people), so the hostesses aren't like EVIL because they're assisting people in dying. the birth control didnt turn them into killer robots..
This is the strangest story I have ever read. I don't know how Vonnegut comes up with stories like this, I mean who thinks up a birth control pill that numbs you from the waist down? The whole idea is crazy! Sex is a part of society and I think if this was really a from of birth control, people would not only be taking this pill three times a day, but would also be taking depression medication. Sex brings people joy, babies bring people joy, and if these opportunities are taken away from people, I don't know, I don't think that's fair. Oh, I also agree with Mike, I don't like the title, I think something better could have been picked, something more approproate.
Although it is true that overpopulation will become a major issue in the near future, the concept of numbing the body from the waist down is simply preposterous. Granted it would help to slightly aid in a solution to control the population growth, but taking away the natural euphoric feeling associated with sex is unethical. Before long, rather than having modes of assisted suicide and the sex without pleasure, there will be controlled thinning out of the species in very much the same way we rid the world of overpopulated species. Personally I think the ideas Vonnegut has come up with are intriguing but in the end simply wrong and a hinderence to society.
This story is the epitome of Vonnegut to me. It is his typical curiousities about the future, and the struggles against this kind of opression. Its sci-fi aspect is like a fun candy wrapper that covers the real moral of the story with sex jokes and cliches.
Obviously Vonnegut is scared and curious about what is going to happen when the population reaches its limits. He writes about this topic often, and I even noted it in Slaughterhouse-Five, even though overpopulation wasn't a major theme in the book.
I'm not sure Vonnegut has a solution to overpopulation in his mind that he deems worthy to solve the problem. It seems like he is trying out several scenerios of what could happen when human reach the brink. What makes these stories interesting is the slight filter of dark humor Vonnegut puts on this serious thought. I was amused.
I really like these stories of the future by Vonnengut. In this story he is proposing impossible answers to a problem that will eventually haunt this world. Since humans have discovered sex and how great it is, there is no way to stop humans from having sex. The whole idea of a suicide house is unlikely. Not many people would give their life so that the world is less populated by a tiny fraction. I think that he suggests these options to alert the world that we will eventually have to come up with better solutions.
While was reading, i really didn't like this story that much at all. I found that it was very strange and predictable, (in the fact that the "foxy grandpa" was Billy the Poet.) But later i changed my mind when i was thinking about how different the world would be like if guys didn't think about sex 24/7. I think the world would be a lot more boring if it was like how Vonnegut describes. I thought it was really sad that the government presuaded people to kill themselves in little stores. I would have predicted the people of the far future to be living on the moon or something as part of population control. I really like the title of the story, it makes me think of the world being full of crazy out of control people. It's kind of fun. Ken, i like what you said about our party in hell.
Vonnegut might be making fun of the over population of the future and this "numbing pill" used to help the problem. I thought this story was very interesting, but, like Mike Scholl said, I don't understand why Vonnegut would name the book after this story. Over population would definately be a major problem in the future, but I feel this numbing pill is a bad solution.
I don't think this story was so much about birth control as it was about pleasure/emotion control. I believe Vonnegut thinks that there is overpopulation - hence the birth control pills he gives the women in the end - but he is warning against an emotionless future. Numbing the people from the waist down numbed them to a lot more than just sex. I think Catherine is wrong when she said that the Hostess was just doing her job and I agree with Ioana, a futue where killing people can be taken lightly is a scary place. I think the title is very appropriate for the story and the book. We are being awakened by the book in a sense, just like the woman was in the story.
i completelyyy agree with what alex said... this is rreally the epitome of vonnegut to me as well with his thoughts about the future mixed in with sex jokes & cliches. this story made me think a lot about our society today and made me realize that our world is getting so much more materialistic and i feel like more and more people are getting exposed to sex earlier through some of the music we hear, more exposure on tv, etc. not that this has anything to do with this story specifically, but i feel like even just watching the freshman classes coming in every year makes me realize how rapidly our world changes.. i see more girls wearing so much more makeup than they need to and wearing tighter clothing than necessary. what will our world be like in 10-20-30 years? i'm kind of scared to think about that, and i reallly hope that our world will think up of better solutions to keeping population under control instead of suicide booths. i liked this story, but at the same time, this story made me slightly scared that someone could think up of things like that. i hope this stays fiction.
I think I’m going to disagree with almost everybody that has posted so far. I think the birth-control concept Vonnegut has come up with is a brilliant idea. Well, kind of. Not only will this numbing pill provide some sort of relief to the overpopulation problem, the number of unwanted pregnancies will decrease sharply. Basically, sex will become strictly a baby making process. Also, the spread of AIDS, HIV, and all other sexually transmitted disease will pretty much be brought to a halt. And if you think about it, rape will probably cease to exist as well. This sounds ridiculously sappy and cliché, but relationships will become strictly about loving somebody for their personality and not about sex. Isn’t this what society has taught us to want?
I found this story to be sommewhat odd yet interesting. Vonnegut chooses some interesting topics to write about and I think this is one of them. Obviously, he thinks that the world is going to become overpopulated at some time and maybe this is his solution to that issue. I do not think these ways are effective because people just try to rebel against them. Not to mention the fact that the whole idea of Ethical Suicide Parlors is a bit ridiculous to me. I think this story makes you stop and think about what would be the solution to overpopulation so that makes the tale interesting.
I liked this story. I can see overpopulation becoming an issue in the future, but I have faith that the human population will realize that there are much more realistic ways of handling too many births...we use them now. The idea of cutting off a very human expression of emotion is pretty terrible. I think that any situation like the one depicted in the story would result in a population of sameness and no excitement, and we would be denying ourselves the pleasure of being human.
This story is reminds me of communism. The american government used mass media to portray communists as evil during the cold war, because they were our enemies. in this story, our enemy is overpopulation, and the way to combat that is to make sure people dont reproduce anymore. My question is, once the three remaining generations of people die off, what'll happen?
Population control seems to come up often in Vonneguts stories like in Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. I think his monthly pill solution could actually work. But who's to say that everyone will remmeber to take those monthly pills. We have birht control already and sometimes people are just too stupid or too lazy to use it. So maybe the monthly pill will work, but not as well as Vonnegut might hope.
I think everybody is really missing a major point of this story by focusing too narrowly on birth control and population control (though I do give him props for being so sensitive to overpopulation in a time when it was less of an issue). I believe Vonnegut using the numbing pills as a literary device, as an example of how poorly our government handles problems. Rather than educating us about the issue of overpopulation and providing us with a simple solution (the monthly pill), they go way overboard, numb us and suppress us and fill our heads with propaganda and fear (I'm surprised nobody mentioned the bit about the government making people believe they would lose control and begin to copulate ceaselessly if they didn't follow the rules). Then, when a grassroots sect pops up that disagrees with the government, it is vilified until people are brainwashed against it and afraid, like they were afraid of Billy the Poet -- when truly Billy the Poet was trying to help people and give them a part of their lives back ... a part of their lives that should be natural and beautiful, not feared.
I'd like to respond to Amy here, but I'd rather not "poison the well," so to speak. I think she has a point, but the reason the government thinks this way is more elemental than merely worrying about education. Look at the problem we have dealing with overpopulation now. Even the over-the-counter pill has been illegal until recently--very recently.
This story seemed to offer an unique perspective on the growing issue of overpopulation. Everyone in the world takes a medication that numbs the lower half of their bodies as a new mode of birth control. But Billy the Poet and his small group defy the government's regulations to end reproduction. Vonnegut acknowledges forty years ahead of time that overpopulation will soon be an important issue, and he seems to think that humans, like monkeys, are physically unable to remain abstinent forever.
I believe that Vonnegut thinks population control should not have to come at a price. Billy the poet makes a point that because of the ethical birth control which makes one numb in the bottom half, innocent pleasures, tenderness, beauty, and natural sexuality has been lost. I think it’s ironic that it’s called ethical birth control because it doesn’t seem like numbness is ethical. The society has become numb to feeling. Romance has vanished from their society. Another ironic name is the name of Ethical suicide parlors. Will suicide ever really be ethical? Shouldn’t people just die of natural causes? Plus the anti-aging cream never lets people truly be what they really are, just as the ethical birth control pills make people not say what they feel and be honest, which again how and fake the society is. I think it’s ironic that all the church people in this story are in support of the pills, and unforgiving to those who have sex, because sex is supposed to be about love, and church people are supposed to embrace love. As for population control, I think Vonnegut disapproves of it, and thinks people should not try to be artificial and die of natural causes. However, I couldn’t tell if he was in favor of birth control or not, or if that was just supposed to tie back to our society and make us think about what could happen? But, if I had to guess, it seemed like he found birth control ok, even though it did promote free sex (which was why the bottle said welcome to the monkey house).
Of the little Vonnegut we've read, they all seem to be extremely similar: Vonnegut experiments with the absurd, scary products of progress as solutions to scary problems of the future. This was a strange story in which Vonnegut seems to portray Billy the Poet as hero: meaning perhaps that Vonnegut supports birth control as a viable solution to inevitable overpopulation but not organized killing both of emotion and of life. Vonnegut also seems to focus not only on population control but the way the government indoctrinates beliefs about the pills and morality into the people, making them inhuman and all the same.
I think Vonnegut's main idea is centered around the vague references to the control the government has on television, the ethical birth control, and the suicide parlors. With the amount of control our government is assuming responsibility over increasing as time moves on, Vonnegut presents a "what if" scenerio, and answers himself that the government would have a large role in trying to solve the matter. As for what he personally believes, overpopulation may be a problem in the future, but letting the government control the entire solution is not the answer.
[In case we were supposed to post under account - the post by arjun above is me]
I thought this story was very interesting. First the fact that they called it "ethical birth control" got me interested on what they meant by that. Then I thought it was ironic that the birth control was considered ethical because technically reproducing was still possible. Then this story got me thinking as to how effective this birth control was when having a kid is now more of a business deal then a miracle. They took all the precious moments out of having a kid. There was no pleasure in the sex and since they were numb from the waist down, I'm guessing giving birth didn't hurt as much either so it wasn't even as much of a big deal. But then I was wondering how having a kid went. The parents decide they want a child and then have a quick intercourse session just to get the sperm in the mother and are done and think "hopefully that worked!" This story just posed a bunch of questions I pondered for a while and still haven't come up with answers to yet.
I think “ethical birth control” is pretty bizarre. Actually, it’s not even really birth control, but more of eliminating people’s sexual pleasure. Even though no one really wants to openly admit it, sex is what life evolves around physically, and even socially. Without sex, the human population would completely disappear. Humans are expected to reproduce so life won’t cease to exist as we know it. Socially, sex is a commonly used innuendo. “Ethical birth control” allows reproduction, like a married couple trying for their first child, but eliminates the pleasure aspect of sex, which is what sex is every time it’s not done with the hope of a child. In Welcome to the Monkey House, the form of birth control is strip sex of all the pleasure and intriguing attributes and leave sex for why it’s needed, to save the population.
Not only is “ethical birth control” used to reduce the population, but there are suicide parlors. In reality, suicide is never looked upon in a good light. Either people have pity for those who commit suicide, sympathizing on the fact that the deceased didn’t know how great they actually were, or people are scornful of those who commit suicide and think that it’s a pathetic way to deal with problems. But in Welcome to the Monkey House, suicide is neither. “Ethical suicide” is just as strange as “ethical birth control.”
Beyond the idea of birth conrol & overpopulation, Vonnegut is making a statement on emotional desensitization. Some one had posted that they thought Vonnegut's form of birth control was brilliant because then relationships would not be about sex, they'd truly be about love since sex would no longer be pleasurable. That's a nice idea, but what functional relationship exists in this story? Can the people in the monkey house world feel love? They're not only numb physically but emotionally too. Their society encourages people to off themselves, and the suicide hostesses can inject people with a smile on thier face. The only passionaste people in this story are the nothingheads. They still feel emotion like normal people. I think Vonnegut is warning us less about population control & more about being a big world full of meaninglessness.
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